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	<title>Comments on: Integrated or Specialist Agencies? Marketers, tell us your thoughts&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/2008/10/15/integrated-or-specialist-agencies-marketers-tell-us-your-thoughts/</link>
	<description>The Voice of ad:tech</description>
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		<title>By: Marc Loveridge</title>
		<link>http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/2008/10/15/integrated-or-specialist-agencies-marketers-tell-us-your-thoughts/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Loveridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 01:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/?p=89#comment-60</guid>
		<description>Recipe for integration:

Take 6 mature specialists, a well educated client with a clear direction and mix well until there are absolutely no lumps.

Pour the mix into a cake tin making sure to grease the sides with some good old fashioned motivation.

Set the oven to KPI Mark 9 and bake vigorously making sure the specialists don&#039;t burn out.

Allow to cool before slicing and enjoying the results.

Special Tip: you can find good specialists in the big supermarkets but tastier ones are usually found at specialist shops.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recipe for integration:</p>
<p>Take 6 mature specialists, a well educated client with a clear direction and mix well until there are absolutely no lumps.</p>
<p>Pour the mix into a cake tin making sure to grease the sides with some good old fashioned motivation.</p>
<p>Set the oven to KPI Mark 9 and bake vigorously making sure the specialists don&#8217;t burn out.</p>
<p>Allow to cool before slicing and enjoying the results.</p>
<p>Special Tip: you can find good specialists in the big supermarkets but tastier ones are usually found at specialist shops.</p>
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		<title>By: CHRIS SIMON</title>
		<link>http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/2008/10/15/integrated-or-specialist-agencies-marketers-tell-us-your-thoughts/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>CHRIS SIMON</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 10:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/?p=89#comment-58</guid>
		<description>I agree with Ben’s and Aaron’s comments, and this debate has lasted like a decade or much more. The agenda side of the equation is actually a sad one and can often be the reason for rubbish campaigns.

However, I believe the magic equation is creative power over real usability or real usability over creative power. The two are of equal standing. And so should all the teams be, including client and every single person in the team. From the one or ‘sum’ who is supposedly capable of leading a strategic change process and the one or ‘sum’ that is supposed to be a creative, media or branding God; to the one or ‘sum’ that are always capable with current technology, tools, software and developments.

But, in this case the sum is always greater than the parts and if you’re capable of choosing or building tightly interleaved teams, you will not have a rubbish campaign. That team could only be 6. It might be 10, 20 or more.  

I think the starting point is creating dialogue rather than building a machine. 

Rather than endlessly comparing the relative virtues of tone, branding and technology, the real importance is who understands how to get the result with the appropriate technology in mind, or how to apply the appropriate technology to the appropriate task.

If your targets are millions of users or networkers and they remember things like speed of database access; it was too slow. If they remember the way in which a list of products or brand benefits could be sorted, they were not understood. 

If you really are all on the same page, they will not consciously notice any of the above, they will already be advocates of your campaign or ‘using’ it and increasingly, be helping you create it and maintain your preferred tone or branding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Ben’s and Aaron’s comments, and this debate has lasted like a decade or much more. The agenda side of the equation is actually a sad one and can often be the reason for rubbish campaigns.</p>
<p>However, I believe the magic equation is creative power over real usability or real usability over creative power. The two are of equal standing. And so should all the teams be, including client and every single person in the team. From the one or ‘sum’ who is supposedly capable of leading a strategic change process and the one or ‘sum’ that is supposed to be a creative, media or branding God; to the one or ‘sum’ that are always capable with current technology, tools, software and developments.</p>
<p>But, in this case the sum is always greater than the parts and if you’re capable of choosing or building tightly interleaved teams, you will not have a rubbish campaign. That team could only be 6. It might be 10, 20 or more.  </p>
<p>I think the starting point is creating dialogue rather than building a machine. </p>
<p>Rather than endlessly comparing the relative virtues of tone, branding and technology, the real importance is who understands how to get the result with the appropriate technology in mind, or how to apply the appropriate technology to the appropriate task.</p>
<p>If your targets are millions of users or networkers and they remember things like speed of database access; it was too slow. If they remember the way in which a list of products or brand benefits could be sorted, they were not understood. </p>
<p>If you really are all on the same page, they will not consciously notice any of the above, they will already be advocates of your campaign or ‘using’ it and increasingly, be helping you create it and maintain your preferred tone or branding.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Shepherd</title>
		<link>http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/2008/10/15/integrated-or-specialist-agencies-marketers-tell-us-your-thoughts/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Shepherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/?p=89#comment-55</guid>
		<description>there are so many variables at play in this equation it&#039;s nigh on impossible to address ... like aaron says, both specialist digital and integrated comms agencies can create breathtaking campaigns ... and create rubbish campaigns.

This sort of debate is generally agenda based - either started by someone from a specialist digital agency or someone from a traditional comms agency who will passively doubt the ability of the other to produce the right result for the client.

i think the key in both instances is all partners being on the same page in terms of the tone of the brand the ultimate result required. This isn&#039;t just the domain of agencies - clients need to pull their weight to and create clear challenges with clear goals and faciliate sharing etc.

Ben - http://mimelbourne.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there are so many variables at play in this equation it&#8217;s nigh on impossible to address &#8230; like aaron says, both specialist digital and integrated comms agencies can create breathtaking campaigns &#8230; and create rubbish campaigns.</p>
<p>This sort of debate is generally agenda based &#8211; either started by someone from a specialist digital agency or someone from a traditional comms agency who will passively doubt the ability of the other to produce the right result for the client.</p>
<p>i think the key in both instances is all partners being on the same page in terms of the tone of the brand the ultimate result required. This isn&#8217;t just the domain of agencies &#8211; clients need to pull their weight to and create clear challenges with clear goals and faciliate sharing etc.</p>
<p>Ben &#8211; <a href="http://mimelbourne.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://mimelbourne.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Trye</title>
		<link>http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/2008/10/15/integrated-or-specialist-agencies-marketers-tell-us-your-thoughts/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Trye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 04:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/?p=89#comment-49</guid>
		<description>From our experience as a marketing services provider, Agencies are certainly struggling with the web and most of their websites show it. In our view still far too focused upon the pure visual and ego aspects, not the community, personalised interactivity or usability factors that help convert into sales leads or accountable bottom line results.

Experts from Bryan Eisenberg to Seth Godin have provided industry ample ideas, guidelines and even real-world methodology on what makes a good, high response website and proactive cross media marketing strategy. These days it could include website interactivity as well as fully integrated, expertly coordinated database-driven campaigns using email and smart dimensional direct mailers as well as TV and print media advertising. Ideally, it would drive people to a personalized, database-driven web landing page made up of graphics, text, speech and video. It should engage readers/viewers, encouraging them to refer the page to others (viral marketing). The data collected is fed back into &#039;the system&#039; for analysis to help fine tune future future coordinated online and offline campaigns. This concept is all foreign to most in the agency and creative mindset.

We can&#039;t &#039;blame&#039; agencies or the creative community. All things seen at Adtech especially take us into new technologies and methods.  It often requires an even larger team of people to put together into something that works and provides bottom line results for the client. People with considerable technical not just creative abilities – We already know that placing IT staff within the creative agency traditionally hasn&#039;t gone well. Even printshops have had the same issue. Change is difficult to accept, let alone embrace, although the younger generation born before 1975 seem to be more accepting. Which implies that only companies with a CEO under 35 years old will move us forward into this bright new age.

For now the only answer for traditional agencies and existing providers is then more outsourcing, especially around tricky interactive online video and database know-how. They then have to trust them to do the job, which is the hard bit. Success is no longer determined just on the creative expertise alone. It&#039;s actually becoming a high tech project management issue, which obviously isn&#039;t taught at existing design, marketing or print schools. 

So, do shows like AdTech help? Are specialist agencies the answer? 

Shows will remain fragmented with each ‘expert’ pushing their own creative bent and single-media barrows. The holy grail of high response, cross-media, fully integrated campaigns for 99% of the market I believe is still a distant dream, even though the marketplace is crying out for it. For those that study technology developments and implementation cycles, there’s the inevitable 10-15 year delay from first generation to market acceptance, or in this case, not so much market acceptance, but the middleman provider acceptance who does the  delivery of these services. 

The answer may well be specialist agencies, but in my view is unlikely they be born out of the established agency pool. It will come from a new, younger generation of entrepreneurs that have the vision and people management skills to bring it all together, and drive change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From our experience as a marketing services provider, Agencies are certainly struggling with the web and most of their websites show it. In our view still far too focused upon the pure visual and ego aspects, not the community, personalised interactivity or usability factors that help convert into sales leads or accountable bottom line results.</p>
<p>Experts from Bryan Eisenberg to Seth Godin have provided industry ample ideas, guidelines and even real-world methodology on what makes a good, high response website and proactive cross media marketing strategy. These days it could include website interactivity as well as fully integrated, expertly coordinated database-driven campaigns using email and smart dimensional direct mailers as well as TV and print media advertising. Ideally, it would drive people to a personalized, database-driven web landing page made up of graphics, text, speech and video. It should engage readers/viewers, encouraging them to refer the page to others (viral marketing). The data collected is fed back into &#8216;the system&#8217; for analysis to help fine tune future future coordinated online and offline campaigns. This concept is all foreign to most in the agency and creative mindset.</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t &#8216;blame&#8217; agencies or the creative community. All things seen at Adtech especially take us into new technologies and methods.  It often requires an even larger team of people to put together into something that works and provides bottom line results for the client. People with considerable technical not just creative abilities – We already know that placing IT staff within the creative agency traditionally hasn&#8217;t gone well. Even printshops have had the same issue. Change is difficult to accept, let alone embrace, although the younger generation born before 1975 seem to be more accepting. Which implies that only companies with a CEO under 35 years old will move us forward into this bright new age.</p>
<p>For now the only answer for traditional agencies and existing providers is then more outsourcing, especially around tricky interactive online video and database know-how. They then have to trust them to do the job, which is the hard bit. Success is no longer determined just on the creative expertise alone. It&#8217;s actually becoming a high tech project management issue, which obviously isn&#8217;t taught at existing design, marketing or print schools. </p>
<p>So, do shows like AdTech help? Are specialist agencies the answer? </p>
<p>Shows will remain fragmented with each ‘expert’ pushing their own creative bent and single-media barrows. The holy grail of high response, cross-media, fully integrated campaigns for 99% of the market I believe is still a distant dream, even though the marketplace is crying out for it. For those that study technology developments and implementation cycles, there’s the inevitable 10-15 year delay from first generation to market acceptance, or in this case, not so much market acceptance, but the middleman provider acceptance who does the  delivery of these services. </p>
<p>The answer may well be specialist agencies, but in my view is unlikely they be born out of the established agency pool. It will come from a new, younger generation of entrepreneurs that have the vision and people management skills to bring it all together, and drive change.</p>
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		<title>By: CHRIS SIMON</title>
		<link>http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/2008/10/15/integrated-or-specialist-agencies-marketers-tell-us-your-thoughts/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>CHRIS SIMON</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 02:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/?p=89#comment-36</guid>
		<description>I did not know whether to comment, first up, on Social Media or Integration, but I think they are part of the same model. I guess having panels looking at how to successfully integrate social media into an overall campaign integrated strategy is not such a bad idea, but a panel here and a panel there, here a panel, everywhere a panel…..To me that’s just the same old conference structure.

Firstly, I don’t think anything or anyone can operate in a vacuum anymore.

It’s a great idea to hand over your Ad Tech programming to the audience, but this will only work if you’re generous with your VIP invites next year, hint-hint:-)

Quite frankly, there are too many conferences saying the same things. I’m afraid Ad Tech 2008 was a bit like that.

I’m yet to find a conference worldwide,(NOW)or next year that really combines the tech, news, internet, mobile, video, blogging, tagging and twittering environment into a cohesive or integrated one.

And the integration discussion and panel has become so long over the last few years that we’re so busy being opinionated that we forget opinions and customer insights can be changed:-)

It’s not about serving up pages; it’s about tapping into widgetized conversation and turning Ad Tech into an app. The killer app conference.So good luck:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not know whether to comment, first up, on Social Media or Integration, but I think they are part of the same model. I guess having panels looking at how to successfully integrate social media into an overall campaign integrated strategy is not such a bad idea, but a panel here and a panel there, here a panel, everywhere a panel…..To me that’s just the same old conference structure.</p>
<p>Firstly, I don’t think anything or anyone can operate in a vacuum anymore.</p>
<p>It’s a great idea to hand over your Ad Tech programming to the audience, but this will only work if you’re generous with your VIP invites next year, hint-hint:-)</p>
<p>Quite frankly, there are too many conferences saying the same things. I’m afraid Ad Tech 2008 was a bit like that.</p>
<p>I’m yet to find a conference worldwide,(NOW)or next year that really combines the tech, news, internet, mobile, video, blogging, tagging and twittering environment into a cohesive or integrated one.</p>
<p>And the integration discussion and panel has become so long over the last few years that we’re so busy being opinionated that we forget opinions and customer insights can be changed:-)</p>
<p>It’s not about serving up pages; it’s about tapping into widgetized conversation and turning Ad Tech into an app. The killer app conference.So good luck:-)</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Christie (Big Mobile)</title>
		<link>http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/2008/10/15/integrated-or-specialist-agencies-marketers-tell-us-your-thoughts/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Christie (Big Mobile)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/?p=89#comment-27</guid>
		<description>Huge growth for Mobile Marketing is assured, it’s just how much and how quickly. 2009 may be the big one, actually 2008 has been in many ways.   EMarketer paints a typically bullish picture of over 400% growth to 2012, but even if you half it, the momentum would still be viewed as significant.  
But Mobile needs to wrestle with some biggies now and I’d welcome the opportunity to hear from the Mobile Marketing community around these sorts of areas:

•Role of Mobile. What are the best opportunities for driving genuine utility on the Mobile, is Location the turnkey, and where does brand fit?
•Apple versus Android versus Symbian.   What do the strengths of these open or more guarded platforms mean for Marketers and their Agencies?
•What Cross Network connectivity and standards adoption initiatives will help?
•What have been the most impactful ways brands have derived value from Mobile Marketing?
•Finally, outside of the Mktg Dept, how is Mobile starting to take a role in Service, Sales, and Operations areas, reducing Opex as well as generating value?

Looking forward to the debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huge growth for Mobile Marketing is assured, it’s just how much and how quickly. 2009 may be the big one, actually 2008 has been in many ways.   EMarketer paints a typically bullish picture of over 400% growth to 2012, but even if you half it, the momentum would still be viewed as significant.<br />
But Mobile needs to wrestle with some biggies now and I’d welcome the opportunity to hear from the Mobile Marketing community around these sorts of areas:</p>
<p>•Role of Mobile. What are the best opportunities for driving genuine utility on the Mobile, is Location the turnkey, and where does brand fit?<br />
•Apple versus Android versus Symbian.   What do the strengths of these open or more guarded platforms mean for Marketers and their Agencies?<br />
•What Cross Network connectivity and standards adoption initiatives will help?<br />
•What have been the most impactful ways brands have derived value from Mobile Marketing?<br />
•Finally, outside of the Mktg Dept, how is Mobile starting to take a role in Service, Sales, and Operations areas, reducing Opex as well as generating value?</p>
<p>Looking forward to the debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Michie</title>
		<link>http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/2008/10/15/integrated-or-specialist-agencies-marketers-tell-us-your-thoughts/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Michie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/?p=89#comment-17</guid>
		<description>This question keeps coming up again and again and I don’t think it will ever be definitively answered… or more to the point, I’m doubting the point of asking it. 

I’ve worked on both sides of the agency divide (specialist digital shop and integrated ad agency), and have to say that both models are equally capable of delivering involving, integrated and entertaining communications platforms, as they are of churning out streams of non-engaging garbage. 

What it comes down to is the people. Just as we talk to our clients about enhancing demographic/media spreadsheet-based views of customers with more human understanding and interaction (via technology), shouldn’t we also realise that the ‘agencographic’ approach is never going to provide the answer?

For me it’s all about finding people who understand the space and can grasp the big picture vision of “why we’re doing this” (they could be agency or client side), and have them lead the work on the overall plan of platforms, channels, inputs, outputs, metrics, etc. Once this is in place it’s just about accessing what capabilities you currently have (current agencies, internal tech, etc), how you get the ones you don’t (specialist shops, outsource, etc) and getting good planning, production and data people to pull the bits together and keep it on track. Who cares if they’re at a specialist shop, an ad agency, or internal. 

As the space expands and becomes more human in every possible way, I think to be successful we’re going to have to spend more time on the humans we work with to ensure we’re all acting like the same ‘brand person’. If I was a client, I wouldn’t ask what ‘sort’ of agency I had (until it came to how my execution/production $ was going to be spent), I’d be asking to see people with understanding and passion for the space who can play really well with anyone else, including me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This question keeps coming up again and again and I don’t think it will ever be definitively answered… or more to the point, I’m doubting the point of asking it. </p>
<p>I’ve worked on both sides of the agency divide (specialist digital shop and integrated ad agency), and have to say that both models are equally capable of delivering involving, integrated and entertaining communications platforms, as they are of churning out streams of non-engaging garbage. </p>
<p>What it comes down to is the people. Just as we talk to our clients about enhancing demographic/media spreadsheet-based views of customers with more human understanding and interaction (via technology), shouldn’t we also realise that the ‘agencographic’ approach is never going to provide the answer?</p>
<p>For me it’s all about finding people who understand the space and can grasp the big picture vision of “why we’re doing this” (they could be agency or client side), and have them lead the work on the overall plan of platforms, channels, inputs, outputs, metrics, etc. Once this is in place it’s just about accessing what capabilities you currently have (current agencies, internal tech, etc), how you get the ones you don’t (specialist shops, outsource, etc) and getting good planning, production and data people to pull the bits together and keep it on track. Who cares if they’re at a specialist shop, an ad agency, or internal. </p>
<p>As the space expands and becomes more human in every possible way, I think to be successful we’re going to have to spend more time on the humans we work with to ensure we’re all acting like the same ‘brand person’. If I was a client, I wouldn’t ask what ‘sort’ of agency I had (until it came to how my execution/production $ was going to be spent), I’d be asking to see people with understanding and passion for the space who can play really well with anyone else, including me.</p>
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		<title>By: Fionn Hyndman</title>
		<link>http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/2008/10/15/integrated-or-specialist-agencies-marketers-tell-us-your-thoughts/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Fionn Hyndman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 03:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/?p=89#comment-8</guid>
		<description>Maybe the issue with integration lies on the client side of the fence.  I think people are better off with specialist agencies for their individual purposes.  The issue is the client tends not to either have the budget or resource to actually employ someone to manage the agencies when they start to play nasty.  Clients need to realise if they want the best agencies, and they want them to work well together they need to do more than just hire them all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the issue with integration lies on the client side of the fence.  I think people are better off with specialist agencies for their individual purposes.  The issue is the client tends not to either have the budget or resource to actually employ someone to manage the agencies when they start to play nasty.  Clients need to realise if they want the best agencies, and they want them to work well together they need to do more than just hire them all.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenny Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/2008/10/15/integrated-or-specialist-agencies-marketers-tell-us-your-thoughts/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 03:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ad-techbrain.com.au/?p=89#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Perhaps we should look at how integration works on both sides of the agency divide.  what are some examples of models that engage the client in the integration process rather than relying on agencies to sort this out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps we should look at how integration works on both sides of the agency divide.  what are some examples of models that engage the client in the integration process rather than relying on agencies to sort this out.</p>
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